stand because we heard from john boehner he wants to meet with the president and none of the plans coming from the white house so far, the opening bid at least, would pass either house. the president went to the business roundtable and said, don't even think about using the debt ceiling. but he can't really control that, can he? >> no. not really. i still think we're in the positioning stage of this. president obama made very clear yesterday i think to the extent there's news that was made yesterday i think in the bloomberg interview where he reiterated the fact you can't simply get to the debt on the wealthiest americans. that is still the stopping point, the hurdle in this back and forth and, you know, john boehner for what republicans have given -- you've seen some breaks in the ranks, more than the democratic side, you've not seen really anyone with the exception of tom coburn from oklahoma say, okay, let's raise the rates, move forward. so we're still kind of at that impasse and that's not changed. >> and despite the fact that senator kerry was offended by our referring to 201